Tax on my State Pension

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Tax on my State Pension

Post by tocyvi on Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:01 am

I recently received notification from the UK tax office that my tax code would go up because I had started to receive my State Pension. This was news to me as I thought that the double taxation agreement meant that I paid tax on my S/P in France rather than the UK. In the event, after I contacted the UK tax authority, it appears that they were wrong. What needs to happen, apparently, is that I need to complete the standard form on the UK HMRC website, complete it, send it to the French tax authorities, which in turn will complete their part and send it on to HMRC. My tax code will then revert to its previous position to reflect the fact that I am paying tax on my S/P in France.
 
My reason for posting is twofold:
- firstly to alert anyone else in this position and to let you know that the double taxation agreement is not apparently applied automatically and that you may have to initiate the process, even though HMRC knows you live abroad; and,
- secondly to ask others who have been in receipt of their S/P for some years, if they had to go through the same process and if it was relatively painless.
 
For those who are in a similar position to me, the link to the form is attached below:
 
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/france-individual.pdf
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Re: Tax on my State Pension

Post by Inkflo on Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:42 pm

Every tax year, the staff at the tax office in France have completed our tax forms for us.
Every year, we tell them that we only have the UK state pension.
Every year, we have received an advice with nothing to pay.
This year, another lady filled in the form and said we will need to fill in the UK Gov double taxation treaty form,
send it to her and she will forward the English part to the UK.
We are now waiting for a revised impot form (they asked for social charges in error) before we can complete the form and return it to her.
We'll have to see how we all get on.

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Re: Tax on my State Pension

Post by tocyvi on Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:45 pm

Hi Inkflo. Thanks for the reply. A friend of mine has also experienced some difficulty with the current tax code, so it appears as though the system may have changed from previous years. I have a feeling that this may take some time.
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Re: Tax on my State Pension

Post by peirol on Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:37 pm

We had the same experience, and filled in the form to activate the change of tax residency and application of the double taxation treaty. Noticing that it had to go first to Limoges for authorisation and then had to be passed on from Limoges to HMRC, I was doubtful that the system would work. However, it did seem to operate seamlessly and went through in a few weeks.
This year for the first time the local Impots office asked us to get a form from CPAM confirming that, as pensioners, we are S1 holders and therefore all our health costs go back to the UK - I think this was in order to exempt us from social charges (except on investment income). Our local CPAM was able to issue the form on the spot and it was immediately activated by the tax office. Good service from all concerned, I thought.

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Re: Tax on my State Pension

Post by tocyvi on Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:19 pm

peirol wrote:We had the same experience, and filled in the form to activate the change of tax residency and application of the double taxation treaty. Noticing that it had to go first to Limoges for authorisation and then had to be passed on from Limoges to HMRC.
Hi Peirol
Thanks for your comments. Are you saying that this was the first year you had to do this? If so, it suggests that the system has changed and that all pensioners in receipt of State Pension will have to do the same.
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Re: Tax on my State Pension

Post by peirol on Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:43 pm

Not the first year we had to complete the form for change tax residency status - we did this just once when we moved here 6 years ago. But it is the first year that we have had to provide the certifying form from CPAM.

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Re: Tax on my State Pension

Post by simmo on Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:58 pm

Hi Folks
The love of my life has her state pension and our tax office in Tulle just told us to put details in the section of our tax form where we put our goverment,NHS and military pensions on which we pay tax in the UK.
They have also reduced our social tax/charges as she is on here state pension, so it sounds to me as if the local tax/impots officals are all still doing there own thing.
I also can not see the point in filling out the double taxation forms and changing if the local Impots are happy with the system in operation .As long as your paying tax is there any reason to make life more complicated than it already is.The old saying don't fix it(the system) if it ain't broke comes to mind.If the impots officer is happy why wake him/her up.
Simmo in a sleepy Correze slinging another log on the fire.

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Re: Tax on my State Pension

Post by tocyvi on Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:10 pm

simmo wrote:I  also can not see the point in filling out the double taxation forms  and changing if the local Impots are happy with the system in operation .As long as your paying tax is there any reason to make life more complicated than it already is.
The rather pertinent point in filling out the double taxation forms is that I am currently being taxed on my State Pension in the UK & in France, hence the reference to the double taxation agreement. The agreed method for taxation on the S/P is that it is paid tax free from the UK, declared on the tax form in France and taxed here.

simmo wrote:The old saying don't fix it(the system) if it ain't broke comes to mind.
The reason I wish to fix it, is because it is "broke"
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Re: Tax on my State Pension

Post by simmo on Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:59 am

Hi Tocyvi
Simmo here,Hum! paying two lots of tax yep! i suppose thats as good as reason as any to get it sorted. Me i'm just going to carry on and not change the system until they say different. The UK tax office where my military pension is dealth with are however all over the place. First they change my tax allowance and my pension is upped then they change my tax allowance and it comes down and then my military pension is upped again.Talk about all over the place,they do not seem to know if they are on this earth or fullers earth.Hi Ho! my sister was a tax officer and she was the same in real life to and right bolshie as well.
Simmo in the correze.

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